2.2 Language - Undone/Done > Unresolved/Resolved

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    WoltLab Suite Forum

    Since more English are coming to Woltlab for Burning Board etc where they're used to it being either Unanswered or Answered or Unresolved or Resolved, think it would be better grammar and more understandable to have those variables changed to "Unresolved" and "Resolved". Done and Undone just doesn't sound good at all. Resolved and Unresolved is more grammatically correct though. A person's thread could be either resolved or unresolved.


    Edited 8 times, last by Smooey (March 13, 2016 at 1:30 AM).

    Quote from Smooey

    Done and Undone just doesn't sound good at all.

    No, it doesn't read very good and what you suggest would be better sounding.

    I had one person on my forum ask what Undone/Done was for?

    Even Solved/Unsolved would sound better. As "solved" in both words indicates something needs be solved. But what does Done tell you?

    Right, done and undone don't make a lick of sense at all and doesn't grammatically flow nicely. I was trying to think of a few alternatives for "done/undone" and basically just came up Answered/Unanswered or Resolved/Unresolved because they mainly pertain to questions about issues in general. Solved/Unsolved sounds like you're trying to figure out a riddle, math problem, or murder mystery.

    Where answered or resolved pertains to issues that had been handled in general / all kinds of issues or what-not. I don't know, but maybe this change is too big for update in 4.1/2.1. But if it is, I'd like to know how to make plugin for it and do proper database queries in install.sql file and what would need done to be able remove the database table changes/modifications when uninstalling the plugin.

    I usually don't like making too many modifications myself via plugins, but sometimes if changes like this are too much to do to an already released version, they'll just do it next version. And I hate waiting and spending more money just to get the changes, I'd have to invest all over again a lot of money and more waiting on plugin updates, etc.

    Edited 2 times, last by Smooey (March 12, 2016 at 11:16 AM).

    Yes, maybe is a big change for 4.1/2.1, but necessary for 4.2/2.2.

    Is not more easy edit the language file? You can to do a en.xml only with these changes and import to your forum to fix the phrases.

    It breaks and gives error on link when clicking old "Undone Thread" link above on forum, cause I guess of database queries it creates when installing wcf/wbb in beginning. Just changing lang vars won't work. There's more to it, hence thinking it might be big update/change to already released version.

    Like I said above, changing language variables doesn't really work, there's more to it. Currently the test site I was tinkering with is still undone and giving error page even after putting back original page menu item name, url / mode url etc. Lang variable wasn't editable either, it was stuck with just one window pane with original one in the field box, and was marked as "customized". I couldn't undone it because something some where got fucked/done up. So I'll have to try to undid what I done, to get it done and proper or reinstall fresh again, but until the changes are made in software itself, thread will remain undone.. And we're talking about full on change, not just lang phrase edits. If I wanted lang phrase edits, could have done that myself and etc.

    Edited 3 times, last by Smooey (March 12, 2016 at 12:22 PM).

    You shouldn't get the wrong idea that they are keeping done/undone just because they consider them more proper words for this context. A simpler reason would be that they are words far too embedded to be tracked down and removed. Changing them would probably break something. I believe WoltLab staff is aware that this unfortunate word choice has triggered some annoyance within WBB customers, and are probably planning to change them in a later release -- not likely 4.x.

    Quote from Geronimo

    This are two phrases for the same thing.

    If you are referring to done/undone and resolved/unresolved I'm afraid you're mistaken. Undone doesn't mean that something is "not done" or not finished yet. Undone was widely used in the 18th century to define ruin and decay. Occasionally, its infinitive form to undo is used to express the action or intention to roll back to a former/previous state. Nowadays, Undone it's mostly avoided in colloquial English, and certainly it doesn't mean "unresolved" as you seem to claim.

    This is mainly a support forum, and members usually start threads to ask questions that need answers, explain problems that need resolutions, and occasionally to chat about various topics. Logically, answered/unanswered and resolved/unresolved would still be better choices than done/undone.

    Edited once, last by rafix73 (March 13, 2016 at 12:15 AM).

    Quote from Smooey

    Solved/Unsolved sounds like you're trying to figure out a riddle, math problem, or murder mystery.

    Ok then. What about Ignored/Answered. :D

    Then again, you can't have "Answered" or "Solved". Because there's a setting to auto tick the box after so long passes if the question is not marked as answered by the thread starter, and if not answered - and auto ticked - then it's not solved.

    Edited 4 times, last by Macondiana (March 13, 2016 at 1:11 AM).

    Quote from GTB

    Ok then. What about Ignored/Answered. :D
    Then again, you can't have "Answered" or "Solved". Because there's a setting to auto tick box after so long if the question is not answered, and not answered then it's not solved.

    Yeah, it gets into that grey area of making sense or not...

    My relationship with my exgf mary is still undone.
    My relationship with my exgf mary is still unresolved.
    My relationship with my exgf mary is still unsolved.
    My relationship with my exgf mary is still unanswered.


    I have to done issues in relationship with exgf mary.
    I have to resolve issues in relationship with exgf mary.
    I have to solve issues in relationship with exgf mary.
    I have to answer issues in relationship with exgf mary.

    Joking aside though, most were correct as I suspected myself. The changes will be too big for 4.1./2.1 update release (too many internal parameters are there, database columns and such, will badly break installation if messing with them), will need to be handled in 4.2/2.2 as lang phrase edits only, so resorting to a simple plugin that can be installed and uninstalled will work.

    At least with simple plugin when uninstalling it, it will revert back to original "Undone/Done" as before. I don't really like importing lang files in backend of ACP. Edit: There is not much choice actually but to do importing of the lang file itself, which overwrites original language variables for the "Done" and "Undone" references, which then need edited later with custom value and saving for getting back the "Done" and "Undone" items. The wbb team won't alter parameters, database entries, etc in 4.x series, as upgrade compatibility will be lost or broken. Will have to wait until BurnForo 5.0 Razors Edge edition for whole rewrite of it.

    I'm also trying to figure out a little better grammar for "own" references. Maybe like...

    Can mark own threads as Resolved > Can mark your threads as Resolved

    Thread will be marked as Resolved after post creation > Thread will be marked as "Resolved" after post creation.

    Not sure if some references should be in quotes or what-not, because you're emphasizing what's going on as the action being done.

    @GTB I had removed them before because it was kind of off-topic, especially the last part. but put it back again. i tend to edit, remove posts, if i feel they're really off-topic, might cause drama, someone finds it offensive, anger someone, or don't hold any value to post.

    Edited 13 times, last by Smooey (March 13, 2016 at 8:52 PM).

    Thanks to @Aethior for originally making up the language file to import via the ACP > Appearances > Languages > Import Language > Browse + submit. I went and tweaked it a little bit. Noticed though under ACP > Options > Forum > Threads setting page, some other setting descriptions are missing the period / . after the descriptions, but included it in Resolved lang file.

    Also made the "R" and "U" capitalized because it's emphasizing on what's being done / the action taken. Anyway, download the en.xml file and import it: ACP > Appearances > Languages > Import Language > Browse + find en.xml file after unzipping zip archive + submit - done. If others want to use it, just translate it from English to your preferred language.

    Also, moderative permissions is wrong, and administrative permissions is wrong... Should be "Moderator Permissions" and "Administrator Permissions". I fixed it quick in en.xml file, and added preview image of it in post. Heck, my as well just make thread in 4.1. help forum about this language file being a "fix" for all known and found "bugs" in language phrases/file. :D

    Edit: Just updated to 4.1.10 and it cleared out the Resolved/Unresolved with the old Undone/Done references of course, this happens unless you manually edit each one in manage phrases and give custom values and save it. After each big update, you'll have to re-import it again etc.

    It doesn't matter if "erledigt" translates into "done." When doing translations the first mistake to avoid is translating words literally, because it's well understood that more often than not, they don't carry the same meaning from one language to another. I already mentioned some time ago that this is reason there are professional translators that know and take into account linguistic, colloquial, and cultural nuances when translating context, so you don't end up with odd words like done/undone threads. This software could really benefit from a linguistic do over with the help of a professional translator.

    Quote from Geronimo

    Ok, but what would be the perfect translation for 'erledigt', answered is clearly wrong, because it stands for so much more, e.g. implemented, answered, fixed, sold, ...

    You need to stop thinking that a word must necessarily be translated from your own language in order to make sense in another. This is a common mistake that all those who speak English as a second language do, including me. For instance, if I were to translate that same word from my own language I would want to use "undone," but I know that to be wrong and odd sounding in English.

    Instead of asking yourself "what could be a fitting translation for erledigt?" you should try to think about this problem in English (it's a trick that works well with me), and maybe look around (there are plenty of examples on the net) and see what term other English-based software use to address that same question. You will discover that done/undone is seldom used to express a positive resolution for a problem, while resolved/unresolved is widely adopted.

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