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  • This doesn't change the fact, the app must be developed for windows first. That windows is making it easier, doesn't change the need for it to be developed for it first. Just because Software A works on Mac, every Unix, BSD and Co. doesn't mean windows now need to make it possible that it works there, too - without the app-developer doing anything. The comparision was bad. This is a better one.

    Meine Beiträge stellen - sofern nicht ausdrücklich anders gekennzeichnet - ausschließlich meine subjektive und aus Erfahrung und / oder Reflexion gewonnene Meinung dar und sind nicht als Fakten zu verstehen. Meinungen sind persönliche Ansichten und benötigen keine Belege. In Deutschland gilt nach Artikel 5 des Grundgesetzes Meinungsfreiheit. Meine Beiträge stellen keine Rechtsberatung dar, hierzu bin ich nicht befugt.

  • We are already three agreeing on this *g*

    Off topic:


    There are times I really wish administrators, webmasters, and developers did not lose their mindset as end users (consumers); as they further their career as administrators, webmasters, and developers. The mentality and the reality of how normal users respond is not the same as administrators, webmasters, and developers. It is for this reason that I feel many of you do not know you're missing the bigger picture sometimes. Your users will not adapt to your needs, you must adapt to theirs. That is the bigger picture that I believe is lost.


    But as we are getting off topic now, I digress.

  • This doesn't change the fact, the app must be developed for windows first. That windows is making it easier, doesn't change the need for it to be developed for it first. Just because Software A works on Mac, every Unix, BSD and Co. doesn't mean windows now need to make it possible that it works there, too - without the app-developer doing anything. The comparision was bad. This is a better one.

    Actually, you may not realize it, but you can run Linux Apps in Windows natively now. As I said, Microsoft is adapting to the world, as all people and things must adapt.

  • I fully agree. This is related to my user argument example "child arguments". But no, i do not need to adapt to them in this special case, as noone in my communities is using grammarly. And i still think that grammarly needs to adapt to woltlab. If enough users like you complain there, something will happen. If noone does, nothing happens and it seems like nothing has to happen.


    Did you at least try to complain at Grammarly while we are discussing here if woltlab needs to fix it? I really hope so!

    Meine Beiträge stellen - sofern nicht ausdrücklich anders gekennzeichnet - ausschließlich meine subjektive und aus Erfahrung und / oder Reflexion gewonnene Meinung dar und sind nicht als Fakten zu verstehen. Meinungen sind persönliche Ansichten und benötigen keine Belege. In Deutschland gilt nach Artikel 5 des Grundgesetzes Meinungsfreiheit. Meine Beiträge stellen keine Rechtsberatung dar, hierzu bin ich nicht befugt.

  • I fully agree. This is related to my user argument example "child arguments". But no, i do not need to adapt to them in this special case, as no one in my communities is using Grammarly. And i still think that Grammarly needs to adapt to woltlab. If enough users like you complain there, something will happen. If no one does, nothing happens and it seems like nothing has to happen.


    Did you at least try to complain at Grammarly while we are discussing here if woltlab needs to fix it? I really hope so!

    I did. They, just like everyone else (no pun intended), said the issue was with WoltLab. A point of fact, only the people here seem to think it is the other way around, which brings me back to my off topic line of thinking


    Off topic:


    There are times I really wish administrators, webmasters, and developers did not lose their mindset as end users (consumers); as they further their career as administrators, webmasters, and developers. The mentality and the reality of how normal users respond is not the same as administrators, webmasters, and developers. It is for this reason that I feel many of you do not know you're missing the bigger picture sometimes. Your users will not adapt to your needs, you must adapt to theirs. That is the bigger picture that I believe is lost.


    But as we are getting off topic now, I digress.

  • Lawl. The issue can't be with woltlab. Grammarly is the addon. It should work with software as this software was intended.


    I should ask Grammarly to change their software, cause i want to make an addon for their software and it needs X. Let's see what they say. ;)


    Nah, i'm honestly sorry but i can't understand the opinion of those guys there. It just feels wrong and unrealistic. That point of view is just not logical for me and therefore can't be mine. Good that i do not need this software and do not need to worry about it.

    Meine Beiträge stellen - sofern nicht ausdrücklich anders gekennzeichnet - ausschließlich meine subjektive und aus Erfahrung und / oder Reflexion gewonnene Meinung dar und sind nicht als Fakten zu verstehen. Meinungen sind persönliche Ansichten und benötigen keine Belege. In Deutschland gilt nach Artikel 5 des Grundgesetzes Meinungsfreiheit. Meine Beiträge stellen keine Rechtsberatung dar, hierzu bin ich nicht befugt.

  • Lawl. The issue can't be with woltlab. Grammarly is the addon. It should work with software as this software was intended.


    I should ask Grammarly to change their software, cause i want to make an addon for their software and it needs X. Let's see what they say. ;)


    Nah, i'm honestly sorry but i can't understand the opinion of those guys there. It just feels wrong and unrealistic. That point of view is just not logical for me and therefore can't be mine. Good that i do not need this software and do not need to worry about it.

    I feel like we're debating the value of having your car steering wheel on the left side of the car or the right side of the car. Either way functions, but it really depends on where you are that will determine this.


    Where everyone else is; is Grammarly works on every forum development, everywhere, and that point is valid, because it is a point of fact, until proven otherwise. At the moment, Grammarly just simply works, which is why it has become so common and highly recommended by the likes of Google, Microsoft, Apple, Mozilla, and Opera.


    When you're the odd man out... The world does not change for you, you must change with the world. Or you can fight the world and go completely against the usual norm. That of course is a choice, but it's not usually going to win people over.

  • Grammarly works on every forum not because every forum was developed to be compatible with Grammarly, but Grammarly had to develop their code to be compatible with every forum. And now they need to do the same here :)


    This is not discussion about place of steering wheel but rather about should car producer be able to desing his own car, or airbag producer should decide about that for him, just because in other cars this airbag is used. In normal world car producer is doing his own thing, airbag producer (as airbag is addon for car, not car is addon for airbag) if want to be used in that car - must adapt his product.


    Now I see that You are trying to say, that one specific addon should decide about some other developers product shape :) I'm dev as well and if anybody would write addon for my app and then after I would for example change/update API for some important reason he would say to me - I won't update my addon, You fix Your app, I would reply probably something like: go to hell :)


    I would suggest WoltLab to look at Grammarly issue, but only to check if there is possible to do some easy workaround. If issue is complicated - I believe that it's Grammarly duty to check and fix this if they want to be universal. It's their business to support wide range of systems and not WotlLab business to take care of Grammarly business :)

  • Grammarly works on every forum not because every forum was developed to be compatible with Grammarly, but Grammarly had to develop their code to be compatible with every forum. And now they need to do the same here :)


    This is not discussion about place of steering wheel but rather about should car producer be able to desing his own car, or airbag producer should decide about that for him, just because in other cars this airbag is used. In normal world car producer is doing his own thing, airbag producer (as airbag is addon for car, not car is addon for airbag) if want to be used in that car - must adapt his product.


    Now I see that You are trying to say, that one specific addon should decide about some other developers product shape :) I'm dev as well and if anybody would write addon for my app and then after I would for example change/update API for some important reason he would say to me - I won't update my addon, You fix Your app, I would reply probably something like: go to hell :)

    Actually, we do have airbags that cars are designed around; because of laws that require safety standards. ;)


    I think that is the 2nd time your analogy ended up supporting mine. lol Funny, how that works, eh? :P


    If your addon became so popular and widely used, accepted and expected as an integrated part of everyone's daily use that it was common for everyone to use it, then to some extent, yes, you would have some leverage and influence, because everyone would either be trying to compete against you or work with you as not to be left out.


    Anyone who did not would be the odd man out. This is how the world works, realistically.

  • Wow, cars are designed aroud airbags? Hahahahaha :D No, cars are not designed around airbags, but airbags are designed to comply standards. And beside standards they just need to fit into car desing. If airbag producer will make some specific model which won't fit into card desing - car designer won't change car desing, instead he will choose other model from other producer. And this is how the world works, realistically.


    And I see nobody here beside You who asking about that, so also *not* everyone is expecting to this should be integrated :)


    If addon developer will start to select what apps he would like to support, other developer will create new addon, with suppport for more systems, so this works in both sides.


    I see that You have problem to understand very simple thing - Grammarly is addon for WBB, not WBB is addon for Grammarly. The only correct way is to report problem to Grammarly and if Grammarly don't want to be left out - they will fix this. If they won't fix this, it won't be supported and that will be correct from logical point of view, because not product should be changed to comply with addon, but addon should be developed to comply with product and that how it is done everywhere in real world. Adobe is not changing Photoshop to be compatible with addons, addons must be fixed to changes in Adobe. If somebody is programming and want to switch to new version of enviroment - must update his code, not enviroment producer have to comply with somebodys old code. If You have broken bulb in fridge You need to buy bulb to comply with fridge and not change fridge to comply with some random bulb, even if it is popular, etc. etc. etc.


    PS: And my first example also didn't support Your theories, which @D3nnis3n explained clearly.


    Like I said before - WoltLab team could look at this, but only if it have simply workaround. Wasting time just to add support for some addon (which is in fact a duty of addon producer) would be irrational. Also if Grammarly will be very important to WBB users - there will be a lot of reports to Grammarly to add support for WBB and I believe that they will do this. If there will be no reports or just few of them... it will show that Grammarly is not very important :)

  • Wow, cars are designed aroud airbags? Hahahahaha No, cars are not designed around airbags, but airbags are designed to comply standards. And beside standards they just need to fit into car desing. If airbag producer will make some specific model which won't fit into card desing - car designer won't change car desing, instead he will choose other model from other producer. And this is how the world works, realistically.

    You laugh, but yes, cars are designed around airbags and a few other standard safety features that dictate exactly where those airbags must be installed and what type is required for the car manufacture must comply with, by law.


    And I see nobody here beside You who asking about that, so also *not* everyone is expecting to this should be integrated

    Because few here are of significance in the larger picture ( cannot edit profile post ) A point of fact, there is only 30 regular posters which is nowhere near a sampling of how many end users there are generally out in the world. However, it does not take a rocket scientist to see the top recommendation on Microsoft Store, Apple Store, Google, Mozilla, and Opera; for a year has recommended and suggest Grammarly as their top picks and highly rated; which can easily assume through even simple reasoning, many folks use it.


    A little reductive reasoning goes a long way.


    I see that You have problem to understand very simple thing

    You're also missing a simple thing --- End users (consumers) usually take the path of least resistance and effort. They do not care how or why or for excuses, even if they are justified. From their limit mentality it is either simple and works or it does not. And if it works everywhere, but not in 1 place, they quickly see that 1 place as the problem.


    As it stands now, you're site would be that place.

  • Quote

    The world does not change for you, you must change with the world. Or you can fight the world and go completely against the usual norm.

    Grammarly is neither the world nor is it a norm. It's an addon to software. And this software should not be restricted in development just so an addon does work with it (without adaption). Do you at least understand my argument? As i really find your arguments unlogical and try to know if you understand why i think so.


    Quote

    Actually, we do have airbags that cars are designed around; because of laws that require safety standards.

    Again a bad comparison. Cars are required to have Airbags in place. But, where, their shape and form must be developed by the airbag producer in order to fit. The car developer must omly give specifications. Woltlab would give them even it is not required by law to implement grammarly. His argument is not supporting yours for the second time now, even though you think so.


    Your argument is that as Grammarly is widespread and already works with many software it's now Woltlabs job to adapt instead of grammarly. And this is unlogical. It's like people are required to love me as soon as i get popular.

    Meine Beiträge stellen - sofern nicht ausdrücklich anders gekennzeichnet - ausschließlich meine subjektive und aus Erfahrung und / oder Reflexion gewonnene Meinung dar und sind nicht als Fakten zu verstehen. Meinungen sind persönliche Ansichten und benötigen keine Belege. In Deutschland gilt nach Artikel 5 des Grundgesetzes Meinungsfreiheit. Meine Beiträge stellen keine Rechtsberatung dar, hierzu bin ich nicht befugt.

  • Quote

    You're also missing a simple thing --- End users (consumers) usually take the path of least resistance and effort. They do not care how or why or for excuses, even if they are justified. From their limit mentality it is either simple and works or it does not. And if it works everywhere, but not in 1 place, they quickly see that 1 place as the problem.

    And this is, as i have explained earlier, the problem. It's not right, but bad behaviour. Woltlab could adapt, but has no logical reasoning in doing so while grammarly has.


    I dont mind loosing a hardcore Grammarly user. In fact a user of my boards would indeed just disable it and complain there instead of me. End users also have loyality ;) They do not decide to be in my board because of Grammarly is working. Do not underestimate that.

    Meine Beiträge stellen - sofern nicht ausdrücklich anders gekennzeichnet - ausschließlich meine subjektive und aus Erfahrung und / oder Reflexion gewonnene Meinung dar und sind nicht als Fakten zu verstehen. Meinungen sind persönliche Ansichten und benötigen keine Belege. In Deutschland gilt nach Artikel 5 des Grundgesetzes Meinungsfreiheit. Meine Beiträge stellen keine Rechtsberatung dar, hierzu bin ich nicht befugt.

  • Grammarly is neither the world nor is it a norm. It's an addon to software. And this software should not be restricted in development just so an addon does work with it. Do you at least understand my argument? As i really find Our arguments unlogical and try to know if you understand why i think so.

    I understand your argument, but I also understand that sometimes the bit becomes the source. I also strongly believe I have a better understanding on how normal folks (none administrators, webmasters, developers) preserve and react to the craziest little things.


    I'd like to remind you, since it clearly has gone unnoticed, and I just assumed you wanted to have this conversation so I continued it ... But I'll point it out since I think it may have gone unnoticed... I conceded this was not a bug since post #6 on page 1 cannot edit profile post


    However, that being said, yes, I would still very much like this to be resolved as I do see the bigger picture of things.

  • And this is, as i have explained earlier, the problem. It's not right, but bad behaviour.

    But as they say, it is how the world works. It's a crazy world we live in. It maybe right or it maybe wrong, but sometimes it just is. You can be mad about it.... I sure am, but neither of us being upset about it today, will not change it tomorrow. It is what it is.

    Woltlab could adapt, but has no logical reasoning in doing so while grammarly has.

    You quoted the logical reason, though you left out that 1 important finishing line. Allow me to re-add it.

    You're also missing a simple thing --- End users (consumers) usually take the path of least resistance and effort. They do not care how or why or for excuses, even if they are justified. From their limit mentality it is either simple and works or it does not. And if it works everywhere, but not in 1 place, they quickly see that 1 place as the problem.


    As it stands now, you're site would be that place.

    I dont mind loosing a hardcore Grammarly user. In fact a user of my boards would indeed just disable it and complain there instead of me. End users also have loyality Do not underestimate that.

    You could not so much as accept me stating the simple fact that I would not be able to use WoltLab in one of the company forums... Much less the many folks who will say nothing, get annoyed over time, and simply go elsewhere. Again the path of least resistance and effort is often the mentality of most consumers.

  • I have no problem if woltlab decides to support it, i even would be happy about that - supporting addons can only be good. This is just a debate on principles for me and i really hope this was clear to you. Maybe you know better how people react, yes, but everyone of us knows how our people react. And they in fact do not react like you think. This might be the case because of our boards being mostly german.

    Meine Beiträge stellen - sofern nicht ausdrücklich anders gekennzeichnet - ausschließlich meine subjektive und aus Erfahrung und / oder Reflexion gewonnene Meinung dar und sind nicht als Fakten zu verstehen. Meinungen sind persönliche Ansichten und benötigen keine Belege. In Deutschland gilt nach Artikel 5 des Grundgesetzes Meinungsfreiheit. Meine Beiträge stellen keine Rechtsberatung dar, hierzu bin ich nicht befugt.

    Edited once, last by D3nnis3n ().

  • Quote

    You could not so much as except me stating the simple fact that I would not be able to use WoltLab in one of the company forums... Much less the many folks who will say nothing, get annoyed over time, and simply go elsewhere. Again the path of least resistance and effort is often the mentality of most consumers.

    I see. You try to have the best path for everyone. I do not. I fight against this bad consumer behaviour and have no problem to loose some people. This is a case of principles. As i'm not selling anything i can go this way which seems right to me and works perfectly fine in my cases. Sureley i try to make wishes happen. But not all, especially for only one person, or when alternatives are there. I understand your company is forced to use grammarly. This is not the case in the free world. Most people would disable it when they like the page. The other ones i can loose without crying. I'm not a service person. You might have another view on this. Also: My boards, my rules. I do not want to sell anything and therefore i'm not bound to any special behaviour but to my ideology and this is what creates the board.

    Meine Beiträge stellen - sofern nicht ausdrücklich anders gekennzeichnet - ausschließlich meine subjektive und aus Erfahrung und / oder Reflexion gewonnene Meinung dar und sind nicht als Fakten zu verstehen. Meinungen sind persönliche Ansichten und benötigen keine Belege. In Deutschland gilt nach Artikel 5 des Grundgesetzes Meinungsfreiheit. Meine Beiträge stellen keine Rechtsberatung dar, hierzu bin ich nicht befugt.

  • I have no problem if woltlab decides to support it, i even would be happy about that- supporting addona can only be good . This is just a debate on principles for me and i really hope this wqs clear to you Maybe you know better how people react, yes, but everyone of us knows how our people react. And they in fact do not react like you think. This might be the case because of our boards being mostly german.

    I do enjoy the debate, so please no apology needed and I'm not offended by someone simply disagreeing with me. :) Particularly this conversation, because it allows me to bring up the fact that forum owners & developers have been overlooking the difference of catering needs (and mentality) of the "end user" for a while now (that is not exclusive to just here, but overall in generally across many forum developments).


    Germany ranks #8 as the point of origin of my user base. Though people are still human everywhere you go.

  • I see. You try to have the best path for everyone. I do not. I fight against this bad consumer behaviour and have no problem to loose some people. This is a case of principles. As i'm not selling anything i can go this way which seems right to me and works perfectly fine in my cases. Sureley i try to make wishes happen. But not all, especially for only one person, or when alternatives are there. I understand your company is forced to use grammarly. This is not the case in the free world. Most people would disable it when they like the page. The other ones i can loose without crying. I'm not a service person. You might have another view on this. Also: My boards, my rules. I do not want to sell anything and therefore i'm not bound to any special behaviour but to my ideology and this is what creates the board.

    We clearly do see this differently. My perspective is 2 fold. 1) I use WoltLab for my own personal forums and 2) at this time I so happen to be the one helping the company I work for, decide on a new support forum (they're currently using vBulletin 3).


    In both cases catering to members is important (more so for the company, naturally). But for my personal needs (outside the company), catering to my members has been a proven success. ;)

    Files

    Edited once, last by Abuse_and_Troll_Test ().

  • I'm not so far away from that (but yes, not that much, nice one!). And the funny thing is, this is with forums where it is really harsh. As you might heard, i like topics like "Cheats" and things to be considered not so clearly fully legal (at least in germany). It works without blowing sugar in their asses. (I really don't know if you understand that - it's a german speech) *g* I will not post a screenshot, as this could be faked easily and i'm not remotley interested in anyone knowing which boards might be under my influence. The topic of the boards also have a big influence on which people there are and how they react to different things. I don't know if you can count bans per day in your forums ;)

    Meine Beiträge stellen - sofern nicht ausdrücklich anders gekennzeichnet - ausschließlich meine subjektive und aus Erfahrung und / oder Reflexion gewonnene Meinung dar und sind nicht als Fakten zu verstehen. Meinungen sind persönliche Ansichten und benötigen keine Belege. In Deutschland gilt nach Artikel 5 des Grundgesetzes Meinungsfreiheit. Meine Beiträge stellen keine Rechtsberatung dar, hierzu bin ich nicht befugt.

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