Allow the editor box be customised

Quote from Jupiter

I know these things can be done with CSS, but as I don't have any CSS skills, it would be useful if there were a area in the admincp to customise the look and functionality of the editor box, including rearranging the buttons, deleting them, or adding others etc.

Jupiter: You raised two good and interesting points!

The situation (implementing changes) - with regards to making those changes via CSS Coding - is one issue that really "bugs" me!

And as I said elsewhere, the "CSS Coding thing" became worse when Woltlab Designers progressed from WFS 4.x.x. TO WSC 3.0.x

Quote from Jupiter

In this day and age, most people use Twitter, Facebook, Whatsapp etc rather than forums. What all social media have in common is a simple to use editor box with a minimum of buttons on it. They tend to have prominent buttons for smilies, to upload a video, to upload a picture and a few others and that's it. On my previous vbulletin software, the out-of-the-box editor showed very few buttons, but gave a button to click to use more advanced functions if needed. Could that be considered for woltlab?

What you said above is ONE HUGE REASON why there have been quite a few individuals (on Twitter especially - but some others too, like Facebook)

who have told me they will not join my Forum because it is "too complicated" for them OR "too time consuming."

In most social media circles of present time, Twitter, Facebook, etc., are geared towards those individuals who want to get in and get out FAST.

And I also have observed, the very nature of FORUMS actually requires an individual to really exercise their "little grey cells";

to wit, if one is going to use a forum, it means that they also have to be able to think and reason things out WITH forethought and planning.

The "modern individual" - who much prefers social media outlets like Facebook and Twitter, to name but two - really doesn't even

consider switching to something else! 

These are usually individuals who don't like having to think beyond a quick response -

whether it be a short TEXT, Smillie, "hot" quickie video, or GIFS.

DJ

I totaly disagree with you both. The showed bb-icons are the simplest and most common used ones in a wide range.

They don't take a lot of space nor distract your eyes. You can simply and easy access everything you need to make a post fast and detailed.

Even smilies and attachments have their own space in the editor, so you can use them without problems.

Quote from Jupiter

I can't really comment on CSS, as I don't know how to use it, but if the ability to make changes to CSS has been made more difficult, then clearly that is a retrograde step to take and I agree with you.

Thanks for your comment.

As for CSS having been more difficult (with the introduction Woltlab made with the latest Forum Software - FROM WFS 4.x.x TO WFS 5.0.x and WSC 3.0.x)

there will always be those who disagree with my assessment of this matter. That doesn't bother me.

WHAT does bother me can be sated with this one example:

In the "old" system, it was easy to put in CSS code for making changes and modifications with regard to Font Color of Categories and Forums - or the description TEXT which was a part of a Category or Forum Heading.

And apparently those Members on this Forum who gave me the Code thought so too; because whenever I asked for some help on this issue

(or with other unrelated issues but nevertheless those which involved making modifications or changes) there was always a straight-forward

answer - together with code - that was complete, easy to upload, and to implement.

With the recent EXCEPTION of the individual who gave the CSS Code for changing the Poll Configuration, e.g., making the Poll fill the page,

with Descriptive TEXT BELOW the POLL, this has not happened. Either the person offering the "help" thinks everyone knows EXACTLY

what to do, OR exactly HOW the Code should be written, OR exactly where it should be entered, Or exactly where to upload it; OR,

they are such a "hurry" to go on to something else, they submit the suggestion or "help" with a VAGUE answer - the latter of which can be

more useless than if they never offered to help in the first place.

AND all of this goes back to what YOU have stated many times on this Forum:

We need a comprehensive and knowledgeable "Help System" OR "Information System" which will cover ALL of the issues YOU (and I)

have raised (and what other Members have mentioned over the months) which would include a "thorough and detailed explanation"

of those issues.

And if the Woltlab Designers believe they need help in this project; then ALL of us should be willing to devote some time and effort to that end.

DJ

Quote from Jupiter

On forums, on ALL forums, not just Woltab, the basic functionality is TOO complicated for the average member to use. It needs to be simpler, a LOT simpler.

And how would you do this ?

I mean there is always room for improvements, but currently the editor remindes me a little bit on the Editor of google mail.

I'm not shure how to make it even more simple to use^^

Quote from Jupiter

All forum software is at least ten years behind the times. Do not the developers of forum software see where this is going...? Facebook has 2 billion users.

We love forums. We use them. We buy forum software. But what I have tried to get through to other forum software developers and failed, is that MOST users today see forums as old fashioned and will not use them. We have to do EVERYTHING we can to make forums attractive but it is a uphill struggle.

If a forum member cannot work out within a few seconds on how to upload a picture, a video, use a smilie, they will leave the forum and never return. You might have 30 seconds, if you're lucky, to keep the member on your forum.

On forums, on ALL forums, not just Woltab, the basic functionality is TOO complicated for the average member to use. It needs to be simpler, a LOT simpler.

Well ... at the risk of getting nearly everyone's "tail feathers" in a ruffled mess ... I happened to not ONLY agree with the above statement you made,

but it is an ACCURATE assessment!

My former Moderator has a Twitter Account, and he has had numerous replies from his "followers" on Twitter regarding the very same issues you

raised in your statement. And I personally have had a few tell me the same thing (but on another social media).

When I first raised my "opinion" on this issue - which more or less is what you stated above - there was a Woltlab Forum Member who was very

quick to say that I was wrong about this matter. [But his statement clearly indicated that he was missing the whole point I was trying to get across!]

The "bottom line"?

It is NOT likely that YOU or ME will ever convince certain Members (and unfortunately, Woltlab Forum Personnel too, apparently)

of anything they have already made up their mind about these issues we have raised.

I am leaving soon to go on a cruise - and while on that cruise I can assure you I am going to completely detach myself from any of this -

including my own Forum, as I have handed over FULL CONTROL to my current Moderator - and he has my permission to do what he

wants to, including these Woltlab Forum comments.

DJ

There are some pretty bold statements in this thread.

Quote from Jupiter

But for me, I want to customise my site, as I want it.

You have the possibility to do that. There's a template editor, a style editor and some other things. Is it the fact that you have to learn something, that prevents you from doing it? To me you just sound like you want to adjust everything and preferably with a click in the acp. This isn't ever going to work out. I know no single software where you can do just about anything without having to learn some HTML/CSS/Javascript/PHP (depending on what you want to do). I mean, if that was the case then software developers like me would have less jobs ...

And also: Excessive customizing options bloat a software up quickly. Which, in turn, makes it more prone to errors, it makes a software slower and also it decreases the usability.

Quote from Jupiter

Facebook has 2 billion users.

Camparing you to Facebook will probably lead to nothing. Facebook is a generic site for everyone, a forum is not. A forum is limited by its subject. Also Facebook has a shitton of money and developers (at least Zuckerberg didn't come up with the idea of just using a cms and then complaining that he can't customize everything), something you probably will never have. Facebook does not have 2 billion users because it's "user-friendly", it's big because of so many different reasons. Personally I'm comfortable with the idea of a forum being different than a social network. I don't want users who just want to shitpost something real quick and then leave. A forum is centered towards making users stay and actively taking part in discussions.

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Now to your initial question. You can style the editor toolbar with some simple CSS (it's not even much). And you can disable BB codes that you don't need (that also removes the icon from the toolbar). You don't even need to learn CSS to full extent but a basic understanding is enough. And this is something every administrator should be able to do. It has always been this way and it probably will stay that way for a long time.

I'd really like to move the gallery icon to a different part of the editor box - not get rid of it, just shift its focus a little - people keep using it for attachments and it's getting annoying.

Or add a paperclip icon to the editor so people go for that first.